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 HMS ?? Grinder 
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Post HMS ?? Grinder
From Wikipedia
The Danish Island of Anholt
Quote:
On 13 April 1810, four Danish gunboats captured a 4-gun British gunboat, the Grinder, near Anholt. She does not appear in British Admiralty records and was probably a merchant vessel that had found wartime employment on an unofficial and ad hoc basis on the Baltic station; nothing beyond the fact of her capture is known of her.


From London Gazette 6 April 1811 [and similar notice on 16 March 1811]
London Gazette
Quote:
Notice is hereby given that the officers and Company of His Majesty’s Sloop Favorite, Benjamin Clement Esq. Commander who were actually on board the said Sloop at the Recapture of the Grinder on 3rd October 1810 that they will be paid on board, on the arrival of the said Ship in Port their respective Proportions of the Proceeds of the salvage of the said Vessel; and all such Shares as are not then paid will be recalled at No. 10, John Street, Adelphi every Tuesday and Thursday within Three Months next after the Date of the first Distribution.
Richard Birt and Digory Forest, Agents.


The unquoted Gazette entry mentions recapture from the French, rather than the Danes. Could this be true, or an error?

Does anybody in Sailing Navies have proof that these two reports of the Grinder refer to the same ship, or that they are completely different ships of the same name?
It would be nice to resolve the quandry of the Grinder's identity

Thanks - Viking


Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:43 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
I can find no trace of any naval vessel named Grinder in service in 1810, and must presume it was a merchant vessel. It was reported in contemporary newspapers at the time, citing reports from the foreign press - the commanding officer was named as "Lieut Esher" - I can find no officer with this name.

The Grinder referred to as being retaken by the Favorite is probably the merchant vessel referred to in the press in Jan 1811 arriving at Whitehaven - "The Grinder, Turner, loaded with a cargo of wool from Lisbon; taken by a French privateer but retaken by an English sloop of war and carried into Plymouth..."


Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:40 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
Ask at Sailing Navies and the response is immediate!! :D :idea:

Many thanks to you, David H. May I ask which contemporary newspapers you use, and how you access them?

Viking


Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:02 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
Viking, the following is from from The Times of May 14th, 1810:

” .......The Copenhagen paper of the 24th April contains a long report from Lieutenant Reibsted, of the Danish Marine, announcing his having on the 13th April, with four gun-boats, captured the British gun-boat the Grinder, Lieut. Esther, carrying two guns, and 34 men; the Grinder had two men killed, and two wounded; the rest were landed in Gothland. ....”


p.s. apologies if the name of the Danish officer is incorrect. It wasn't too clear in the TDA and I am unfamiliar with Danish names.

I access the TDA through my membership of Cambridgeshire Libaries.

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aka Mary ....


Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:09 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
The info came from 19th Century Newspaper archive at the British Library - similar to Mil Goose, I gain access through my local library service in Suffolk.

In addition to The Times, it was reported in-

The Morning Chronicle (London) 14 May 1810

"A Gottenburg mail has brought letters and papers to the 3rd inst. An article, under the date April 21, gives a long account of the capture of an English gun brig in the Baltic. This vessel had wintered at the Island of Anholt. Her loss was two men killed and two wounded. She proved to be the Grinder, Lieutenant Esher."

The mention of the merchant vessel Grinder appeared in The Lancaster Gazette on 19 January 1811 and The Caledonian Mercury (Edinburgh) on 24 January 1811.


Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:53 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
Quote:
13 APR 1810 4 kanonbåde under premierløjtnant Skibsted erobrer ud for Samsø den engelske kanonbåd GRINDER.

from a Danish naval history timeline
The above gives the command of the four Danish gunboats to First Lieutenant Skibsted, and the capture in the waters out from Samsø. [Distance from Samsø to Anholt is almost exactly 100 km NorthEast] It is tempting to assume the Danish boats were based on Samsø, but I have no evidence.

If Mary or David H. [or anyone else] needs translation of Danish reports, I will be happy to help. Meanwhile I will go gently into whatever I can find, to see if this story can be expanded.

Viking


Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:38 pm
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Post Re: The Grinder
:shock: I took all the above information and wrote it into the Discussion Page of the Wikipedia Anholt (Denmark) page. This has resulted in the author of that page upgrading the information about the Grinder and further references in Danish coming to my attention.
Thus translated from Den dansk-norske Sömagts historie 1700-1814 By Hans Garde page 548
The gunboat Grinder, Lieutenant Esther, had been stationed over winter at Anholt, which the British had taken and occupied in May 1809, and it had already seized 12 Danish merchant ships.
On 13 April [1810] Grinder was again hunting two small ships when First Lieutenant Peter Nicoly Skibsted, who with 4 [Danish] gunboats was convoying 8 transport ships from Udbyhøj
[at the mouth of the Randers Fjord, Jutland] to Samsø, spotted her. He at first shielded his gunboats behind the transports, thus tricking the enemy to draw closer. As soon as [the Grinder] noticed the stratagem, he tried to flee, but Skibsted was successful in rowing up to him, and after a few shots were exchanged, forcing him to surrender
The same book, a few pages later, gives graphic details of Lieutenant Skibsted's next command of three luggers, and their capture in a cutting out expedition by ten boats [200 men] from HMS Edgar and HMS Dictator briefly confirmed in
London Gazette Date:25 February 1812 Issue number:16578 Page number:385


Viking


Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:31 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder - Progress!?
:idea: Thanks to a Dane [Hej Rudi!] this document has come to light in the archives of Orlogmuseet [Royal Danish Naval Museum] in Copenhagen.
Translation of the Grinder document. [notes] [ Handwriting] [typing]
Type: English Gunboat [literally: barge] Name: GRINDER
xx (Prize no.5) and prize no.1
Pictures:
Place of Construction:
Shipbuilder:
Launched: captured 13/4 1810 off Anholt
Refit:
Fate: 5/7 1811 recaptured
Length:
Breadth:
Draught aft:
Draught fore:

Crew:
Armaments: 1 piece 24xx 1 24xx Caronade 1 piece 4xx Howitzer
Remarks [Comments] and Source References
DK,216
WI 119
TI II 519
WA

This form is obviously type written in part – so it dates from 1870 or later. [See wiki Typewriters] It appears to me that the four coded entries at the bottom may be source material at the Orlogmuseet [Danish Royal Navy Museum] archives.

Where this note will lead I do not know! Any offers?
The problem of an unlisted ship is still present. One suggestion made to me for the "Captain" of "Grinder" is that Lieutenant Esher or Esther may have been a Marine - does this hold water??

Viking


Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:23 am
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
Having given this some thought, I now think that the most likely status of the 'Grinder' was that of a tender to the garrison on Anholt - Falconer describes a tender as "..a small vessel employed to attend a larger one, to supply her with stores, carry intelligence etc".

Tenders, usually small vessels, such as cutters, schooners or small brigs, were not commissioned vessels of the Navy, but "belonged" to a larger ship. They were often craft taken into service locally by the bigger vessel on the authority of the local commander. As such they were invariably ignored or overlooked and are certainly poorly recorded.

As Anholt Island was 'commissioned' by the Navy as a ship for the purposes of pay it would be most likely that they would have taken up some small vessel - possibly a local craft, and employed her as their tender. This was the case with another small vessel, I believe a schooner, which acted as a tender to the island, and was given the name Anholt.

I have also found mention in 1806 of a Thomas Esther, who was then serving as an Acting Master in HMS Phosporous. As it is a somewhat unusual name, it would be tempting to think that this is the same man.

Ultimately the answer may lie in the National Archives; unfortunately it appears that a Ships Log for Anholt only exists from September 1810, but Ships Musters exist from May 1809, which would show any 'Esther'.


Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:03 pm
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Post Re: HMS Grinder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Grinder

The above link leads to a new wikipedia page on HMS Grinder, answering many of the problems that have arisen in trying to identify this mysterious little ship.
Several people have had an input - a good collaborative effort.

Viking


Mon May 02, 2011 6:58 pm
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Post Re: HMS ?? Grinder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Grinder_(1809)
is the updated address for this English language article.

If you prefer to read Danish, try
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_Grinder

While laid up at Sheerness, Grinder was offered for sale by the Admiralty on 24 July 1832 and sold on 22 August the same year. There appears to be no certain evidence connecting Grinder's recapture by British forces and her eventual disposal - unless somebody on the forum knows better!!


Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:18 pm
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