View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:31 pm



Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
 Plymouth 
Author Message
Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:02 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Post Plymouth




From The Times, August 28, 1802:

" ...... PLYMOUTH, August 26 .... The Right Hon. Earl St Vincent, Captain Markham, two other Lords of the Admiralty, General Bentham, Inspector of Naval Affairs, and Mr Marsden, Secretary...Sir AS Hammond, Comptroller, arrived at Plymouth Dock. Their Lordships are to to take into consideration a plan for building a pier in Cawsand Bay, to protect ships of war against the south-east winds; and also a plan for a large wet Dock on the waste ground in the Dock-yard, besides several other objects of importance respecting the regulation of the Yard and its dependencies. ..."

I, personally, do not know Plymouth, and wonder if this link refers to the aforementioned pier at Cawsand Bay.




_________________
- Mil -
aka Mary ....


Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:27 pm
Profile YIM
Lieutenant

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:49 pm
Posts: 63
Location: England
Post 
Mil Goose wrote:
I, personally, do not know Plymouth, and wonder if this link refers to the aforementioned pier at Cawsand Bay.

No, I don't think so, Mil. The breakwater that was eventually built, described in the link, is a freestanding breakwater across the middle of Plymouth Sound, with channels either side (the widest to the west). This protects Plymouth Sound from southerly gales, providing a safe anchorage for a large number of ships. See map here.

Cawsand Bay is outside the Sound itself, to the west of the breakwater, and is not protected by the breakwater. Cawsand Bay was used as a summer anchorage for a small number of ships, and is protected from southwesterly gales by Rame Head and Penlee Point, but is exposed to southeasterly gales. The pier that St Vincent & co were considering would have been built out from Penlee Point and would have protected Cawsand Bay from southeasterlies. I don't believe it was ever built, as deep water would have made it very expensive, and the anchorage was small.

Over the years there were quite a number of different schemes considered, before the breakwater was eventually built to protect the Sound. The problem with Plymouth was that the Hamoaze (where the dockyard was located) provided a large, safe anchorage, but had a narrow and complicated channel that was difficult to negotiate. Plymouth Sound provided a large anchorage, but was dangerous in southerly winds, and Cawsand Bay was small.

_________________
Tony


Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:48 pm
Profile WWW
Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:02 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Post 
....many thanks for that, Tony. The information and explanation is very useful. Up here on the east coast our ravages come from the North Sea, but I know the south west and the south coast is at the mercy of the Atlantic, via the Channel (as per the conditions this weekend)

It's always handy to have a forum member who is familiar with an area when a query crops up.

I've been down to Devon, but, alas, not to Plymouth....thanks again!

_________________
- Mil -
aka Mary ....


Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:32 pm
Profile YIM
Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:02 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Post 


From The Times, November 21, 1808:

".... On Wednesday night a dreadful fire broke out in the Plymouth Dock-yard, in the little hemp house, near the lower part of the rope house, full of -------- of hemp, which was entirely consumed. The fire burnt with considerable fury for thee hours, from eleven p.m. to two a.m. but was got under by the great exertions of the dock-yard men and crews of the different men of war in Hamoaze, which were landed at the North Stairs, and who worked the powerful dock-yard engines with great activity .... "

The "--------" in the above passage appears to be "taffries" bearing in mind the The Times used the old fashioned "s" and "f", with which I usually have no problem. I've searched in my own dictionaries and online, and wondered if this "taffry", or whatever, is a coil/bundle/bale? Can anyone enlighten me, please?


_________________
- Mil -
aka Mary ....


Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:46 am
Profile YIM
Lieutenant

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:53 am
Posts: 176
Location: UK
Post 
I had a look in my 'Shorter Oxford, Vol 2' ( a bizarre name for such a comprehensive dictionary. It is'shorter' only in that it is an abbreviated form of the 26 volume Oxford Dictionary!)

I found one word that might give a clue:

'Tass' was a word in general use from the fifteenth century but later became a dialect word. It means 'heap, pile or stack' which would fit the context of your quotation from the Times. So the 'f's are 's's here. But where the Times's extra 'r' came from, I don't know. It isn't in the dictionary!


Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:11 am
Profile
Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:02 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Post 
polly wrote:
I had a look in my 'Shorter Oxford, Vol 2' ( a bizarre name for such a comprehensive dictionary. It is'shorter' only in that it is an abbreviated form of the 26 volume Oxford Dictionary!)

I found one word that might give a clue:

'Tass' was a word in general use from the fifteenth century but later became a dialect word. It means 'heap, pile or stack' which would fit the context of your quotation from the Times. So the 'f's are 's's here. But where the Times's extra 'r' came from, I don't know. It isn't in the dictionary!



... thanks, Polly, that makes sense, your theory could be right. I was intrigued with it seeing as it appears not to be a word that has found its way down to ensuing generations.

_________________
- Mil -
aka Mary ....


Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:54 am
Profile YIM
Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:02 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Post 



...apologies if this interesting link - it contains some fascinating information about the yards - has appeared before. I have checked but couldn't see where it has been posted previously.

_________________
- Mil -
aka Mary ....


Wed May 27, 2009 8:57 am
Profile YIM
Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:02 am
Posts: 2747
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Post 



.... a bit more about Cawsand - if interested, see earlier posts in this thread.



The Times, October 5th, 1801:

" .... The Commissioners of the Navy, arrived at Plymouth on Wednesday, and on Thursday, accompanied by Mr Penn, King's Pilot at Cawsand, made a survey of the whole of Cawsand Bay. The Commissioners have it in contemplation to construct a Pier from Pinlee* Point, to the South-east part of the Bay, which, if accomplished, will secure it against the E.S.E. gales, the only winds which can affect it. This desirable object being once obtained there can be moorings laid down for 40 men of war. ...."


* Marked as "Penlee" on maps.





_________________
- Mil -
aka Mary ....


Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:31 am
Profile YIM
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.